Hey oppo, I need help

"Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To" (murdersofa) 02/04/2015 at 23:36 • Filed to: None

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My dad won't let me DD the Civic I'm hopefully getting this weekend because it's "too small" and "unsafe". He is entirely convinced that crash ratings are mostly useless because the roads are dominated by larger vehicles, and that they will insta-kill you in a wreck. My thinking is a smaller, lighter, stiffer car is more likely to skitter away from an impact than to hold its ground and get crushed in. More G forces, less likely to get impaled by your A pillar.

As a reference, other cars in my family ar a 99 Silverado, 05 Passat, and my 00 LeSabre. The Civic in question is a 1998 Civic Sedan. Can anyone come up with a decent argument for "allowing" me to drive the car I intend on buying in a couple days? Keep in mind money isn't an issue; I'm paying for everything, but since I live with him and I'll be piggybacking on his insurance he still has say in things.

Nibby > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:37

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Give me the Civic.

ttyymmnn > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:38

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Based on no data whatsoever, I think your dad is right. But then again, I'm a dad, too. If I had my way, my boys would be driving an M1 Abrams.

Cherry_man1 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:40

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Ask him would he rather you be in a Miata or a Mustang GT or something that will be safe and dependable. Also look up the death rate for the car.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Nibby 02/04/2015 at 23:41

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Nuuuu, I need to learn stick D:

Agrajag > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:41

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Did he allow you to ride a bicycle on the streets?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Cherry_man1 02/04/2015 at 23:42

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Pretty much all he says is 'it has to weigh more than 3200lbs'

That's it.

If it weighs more than 3200 and has airbags he considers it safe.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:42

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I've always used the "more nimble, better chance to evade" argument. The fact of the matter is unless you're in a full sizer from that era, you're fucked against a truck anyway. Might as well give yourself a fighting chance to get away.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Agrajag 02/04/2015 at 23:42

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Yes

Übel > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:43

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Solution

ly2v8-Brian > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:43

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Small cars are quite unsafe.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/04/2015 at 23:44

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He deals in absolutes, and assumes that a crash *will* happen.

Agrajag > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:44

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Dad: You're not driving that death trap.

Jake: Fine, I'll just ride my invincible bicycle instead.

That said he is your Dad and you're kind of stuck with whatever he decides.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Übel 02/04/2015 at 23:44

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that looks suspiciously Red Green

Nibby > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:44

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Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:45

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1998? unsafe? Psh. My father's saying the opposite about 'small cars', as long as it has crumple zones, and airbags, it shouldn't be a big issue, unless you're the kind of guy that jumps them on a regular basis. he's trying to coax me into a Yaris for crying out loud.

Civics are among the most popular cars on the road today, they sell so many of them for a reason.

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:46

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He let you drive that mazda pickup right? That thing weighs 3025lbs, less than 3200lbs

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Nibby 02/04/2015 at 23:46

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...uh, Nibby.

The fuck?

Übel > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:46

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I wouldn't trust the engineering of anyone else

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 02/04/2015 at 23:47

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There's a difference between 'took autocrossing' and 'daily driving'

Nibby > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:48

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I know where to find the strangest things on YouTube. The ending was hilarious!

Denver Is Stuck In The 90s > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:48

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Ya, daily driving is a safer activity

bob and john > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:50

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I just see this as an excuse to roll cage it to FIA spec. and racing brakes and tiers. cant stop fast enough you know. (cough auto crossing upgrades)

mcseanerson > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:50

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What year civic? Also size and weight do nothing for occupant safety. It's all about how the frame is designed to handle an accident. I thought my NA Miata was a death trap weighing next to nothing and having no roof so I looked at videos for my Miata and my wife's WJ Grand Cherokee and was shocked to find out of the two the WJ was the death trap. It's not as simple as size or mass. A lot of complicated engineering goes into what makes a safe car.

Tell your dad you're concerned for his safety.

crowmolly > ttyymmnn 02/04/2015 at 23:51

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You also lose points if the car is a shitbox with a worn out suspension and brakes.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:51

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3200 lbs + =/= safe

I know it sounds overly biased, but if you want to die in a crash, buy something 90's to early 2000's, big, and American. For the most part, they were poorly made and unsafe.

scoob > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:52

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!!! UNKNOWN CONTENT TYPE !!!

wafflesnfalafel > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:53

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It's almost certainly safer than his 99 Silverado even weighing a half ton less. And honestly, 99% of accidents are preventable even if you are not at fault simply by being a better driver, paying attention and avoiding the crazies. Anybody is hosed if you are t-boned by a drunk at 50mph, whether in the Buick, Passat, p/u or that Honda - your brain is going to splatter around the inside of your head regardless. Best to touch that brake a half second earlier and avoid the wreck completely. And that Civic is going to stop quicker.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 02/04/2015 at 23:54

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So, like my 2000 LeSabre? The crash test for it is actually rather impressive.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > mcseanerson 02/04/2015 at 23:55

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98 Civic sedan

It's my little sister that drives the Silverado. No amount of convincing can make my dad think that there is any possible way for strength to be safer than raw mass. At least, no argument I've tried to use.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > bob and john 02/04/2015 at 23:55

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If I can't convince him to let me DD it it's becoming an autox machine. Upgraded pistons, rods, a turbo, coilovers, etc.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 02/04/2015 at 23:56

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In no way is autocrossing more dangerous than daily driving.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 02/04/2015 at 23:56

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I've been using this argument as well, since my mother thinks 120 HP is too much for me, while she and my father daily drive cars with approx 250 HP, which I often borrow. Mom wants me in a smart, dad wants me in a Yaris, and I want an older car that does everything better.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:57

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There are exceptions to the rule, but small Japanese cars from that era tend to be a more solid choice. Though, there is always Volvo. Heavy and safe, though they're basically Swedish Buicks that are less cheap to fix.

bob and john > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/04/2015 at 23:58

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honestly, if he is that set, there is no convincing him. you can argue until you are blue in the face and then some, and he wont budge.

and if thats the case, might as well go and rind something RWD to autoX with.

Übel > Denver Is Stuck In The 90s 02/04/2015 at 23:59

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Autocrossing is MUCH MUCH MUCH safer than driving on the road...

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 00:04

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This is the type of argument you have no hope of winning regardless of any supposedly logical points you may have. Unless your dad has said "prove me wrong," he's clearly already made up his mind based on his opinion and what you have to say doesn't matter.

Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 00:05

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If it's your money and you're paying for tax title license and insurance I fail to see why his opinion matters?

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Sampsonite24-Earth's Least Likeliest Hero 02/05/2015 at 00:08

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Because he won't let me on his insurance (cheaper than getting my own insurance) if he doesn't approve of the car, and he could do any number of things to make my life miserable if I piss him off.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Textured Soy Protein 02/05/2015 at 00:08

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He seems to want to argue. He hasn't researched dick shit about any of this since the fucking 90s. He had no idea a Civic sedan even existed. "A sedan? A civic? With... four doors?"

Cherry_man1 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 00:08

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Tell him the materials that made the car are designed to be very lightweight but it Also tell him it would be safer then a larger car because there is less mass being shifted about.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 02/05/2015 at 00:09

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I wish I could find some sort of hard evidence for the small Japanese safe car thing.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > wafflesnfalafel 02/05/2015 at 00:10

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'almost certainly' doesn't win arguments, though. Unless I find a peer-reviewed study or some sort of official paper stating so, I can't convince him.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > scoob 02/05/2015 at 00:10

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Best commuter car/autox vehicle ever.

PyramidHat > Nibby 02/05/2015 at 00:13

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Well. That was disturbing.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 00:14

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In modern times, it kind of is bigger is safer, the IIHS proved that. BUT at the same speeds, look at what the F150 did vs. what the Civic did. That's pretty solid evidence there that bigger isn't always better.

TL;DR If your buying new, don't go micro. Used is complicated.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies 02/05/2015 at 00:19

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I saw a head-on crash test between a 2002 F150 and a 2002 Civic. Both were easily survivable.

Funktheduck > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 00:21

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Show him the crash test video for my mazda 3 (2015). Sure there's 17 years of tech but it'll show how safe small cars can be. Then show him a video of a modern SUV

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 00:21

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Show him late 90's F150 crash tests and S-class vs. Smart.

Textured Soy Protein > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 00:25

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Yeah, he's not going to listen. This is going to come down to "I'm the parent, you're the kid, quit it with your silly 'logic,' I'm not listening, la la la."

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 00:59

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If you have money for that stuff get your own insurance so he has no say.

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 01:10

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What's wrong with dd-ing the sofa? Those are pretty damn safe. When I was 16 I lost control doing 80mph on a dirt road and hit a field approach sideways, went over three times and landed back on the wheels engine still running and me with nothing more than a small piece of glass stuck to my nose and a sore neck. That was in an older version of a sofa like yours (but less murdery).

Tohru > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 01:29

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After what you've done to that poor LeSabre the Civic is much, MUCH safer.

TopSirloin > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 01:38

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The same amount of force is being applied to your vehicle initially no matter what vehicle you are in. Whether your car absorbs the impact by crushing or by skittering away does not make a whole lot of difference when the real damage and danger happens on impact. Sure, energy can be directed around the passengers through crushpoints and strategically engineered channels, but let's be honest, these are late 90's cars were talking about. Don't count on that helping much.

I'm still convinced my first DD was a test. It was a tin can. The doors would nearly blow away if opened in a breeze. If I was able to drive that car for X amount of time and not die, I had passed the test and my parents wouldn't give me grief about what I drove.

pip bip - choose Corrour > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 03:05

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your father is wrong. WRONG.

beat him senseless.

jkm7680 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 07:31

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It's probably not that unsafe, as long as the airbags are connected and unused.

Also, what do you plan on doing with the no title issue? It could be stolen even.

jkm7680 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 07:31

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Put a fat chick in the trunk.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > jkm7680 02/05/2015 at 07:37

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It does actually have a title

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Tohru 02/05/2015 at 07:38

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Oy. Poor lesabre? Check yourself m8

jkm7680 > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 07:38

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Well that's good then.

Just promise not to make a ricer out of it.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/05/2015 at 07:39

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The interior is disintegrating and electrical gremlins are quickly making it undrivable, and it needs about $1000 worth of repairs done to things that AREN'T the electrical system. Also I need to get competent at driving stick

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > AMGtech - now with more recalls! 02/05/2015 at 07:40

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He has too much leverage in my life financially. I'm trying to become independent to teh point where I can just do my own shit, but it isn't happening quickly

AMGtech - now with more recalls! > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 09:14

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It's not easy. Don't rush it, even if you have to deal with things like this. If you become financially independent before you're ready you could seriously fuck up your credit/finances for years to come.

Tohru > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 10:09

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I stand by what I said. That Civic most likely doesn't have a janky homemade strut bar, holes drilled in the strut towers to cable the front suspension solid, or overboosted rear air shocks.

Though as soon as you buy it, I fear for the poor Civic and what will happen to it.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > jkm7680 02/05/2015 at 11:04

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I have my choice of a black one with a decent body but an engine that runs yet needs rebuilt, or one with a shit body, pretty much only good for stripping and caging, but a better condition engine. Given how cheap it is to rebuild these engines, I'm going to probably go with the black one, as much as I dislike keeping black cars clean.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Tohru 02/05/2015 at 11:13

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You fear for a Civic I intend on rebuilding the engine to and lightly modifying for Autocross? Ok, then.

Say what you will about my questionable experiments with my car in the past (though the air shocks are far from questionable, those are a legitimate upgrade for this platform), it is objectively now a better performing and handling car than it was when I started.

Tohru > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 12:00

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Key words are "lightly modifying". This is you we're talking about, it's anyone's guess what harebrained stuff you'll try to do to it. That it'll be plastidipped inside and out is a given, and at least they make proper strutbars and CAI's for Civics.

If only EssExTee could be so grossly incandescent > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 15:42

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Get him to pay for a roll cage and harness. It's win-win.

norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback > Nibby 02/05/2015 at 16:18

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Oh my God, that was fucking hilarious.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Tohru 02/05/2015 at 16:31

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Sway bars, progressive-rate springs, oversized pistons, hardened piston rods, low-pressure turbocharger, and... that's about it. And whatever else the engine needs when I tear it down.

Tohru > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 02/05/2015 at 16:57

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no no no, I meant the stuff that you're going to actually do to it. Solid steel front struts to completely eliminate body roll, a 10" android tablet in place of the gauges, speed holes in the rear bumper cover, Volvo front lip, lo-pro tires on TE37 knockoffs, a partial cage made out of galvanized plumbing to mount the 4 point harness to... Y'know, like the stuff you do to the Sabre.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Tohru 02/05/2015 at 17:19

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I have a job now, and the car is going to be my secondary for a while so I don't have to have it running at all times. I've got the time to do this properly. Also performance parts/replacement parts for Civics are cheap and plentiful, the precise opposite of a Buick.

I did smile at the image of a Civic modified as you said, though.

Eli's Got 2 > Nibby 02/05/2015 at 17:43

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Sloth

Nibby > norskracer98-ExploringTheOutback 02/05/2015 at 20:21

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:D It was!